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Thursday, April 19 

IQ Continued

Instead of tacking on to the end of the previous gun/IQ post, I'm going to add more here.

Ed posted his thoughts on gun ownership and IQ here.
So, if the average IQ of those states is 92, then we can postulate that the average IQ of gun owners in those states is commensurate with those statistics. If those statistics are fairly accurate, you can then, with a reasonable level of accuracy, further postulate that the national average of gun owners across the US is around the same. Not science, but at least enough to begin a discussion on whether or not gun owners are the smartest tools in the shed. Clearly, my original statement, “Not stupid, but not exactly the top ten percent of the countries intelligencia,” isn’t as offensive as one may think.
I'm going to get really touchy here, and take this whole IQ thing a step further.

In my previous post, I pointed out statistics that say
Gun ownership was highest among middle-aged, college- educated people of rural small-town America. Whites were substantially more likely to own guns than blacks, and blacks more likely than Hispanics.
If we then compare average IQs of whites vs. blacks, you will see an average 15 point IQ gap. Given that gun owners in the southern states are predominately white, his postulate that the states average IQ is 92, therefore that must be equal to the IQ of gun owners is not quite accurate. If you wanted to be more accurate, you would have to take the races separately, comparing the segment of each population, what percentage are gun owners, and then average their IQs.

To take this out even further, lets look at stats for hispanics.
Here's the best estimate I've yet seen: A 2001 meta-analysis of 39 studies covering a total 5,696,519 individuals in America (aged 14 and above) came up with an overall difference of 0.72 standard deviations in g (the "general factor" in cognitive ability) between "Anglo" whites and Hispanics. The 95% confidence range of the studies ran from .60 to .88 standard deviations, so there's not a huge amount of disagreement among the studies.

One standard deviation equals 15 IQ points, so that's a gap of 10.8 IQ points, or an IQ of 89 on the Lynn-Vanhanen scale where white Americans equal 100. That would imply the average Hispanic would fall at the 24th percentile of the white IQ distribution. This inequality gets worse at higher IQs Assuming a normal distribution, 4.8% of whites would fall above 125 IQ versus only 0.9% of Hispanics, which explains why Hispanics are given ethnic preferences in prestige college admissions.
So again, you have the white population scoring higher, on average, than the Hispanic population.

Given all this data, then, the majority of gun owners would still be, on average, white, because they, on average, score higher on IQ tests.

Wait, did I just say that gun owners are apt to be more intelligent because they are, on average, white? Wow, that ought to set off a firestorm.

Now, please allow me to give my disclaimers here. I am pointing all of this out to prove a point. You can no more require intelligence tests for gun ownership than you can for voting. Similar tests have been used in the past to disenfranchise voters, and the same could be said about this. If blacks and Hispanics, on average, score lower on intelligence tests than whites, is this then a racist attempt to keep the black and Hipanic population unarmed, and more readily controlled by the white population?

What about Ed also comparing this to raising children. The Hispanic population in America is growing at a much faster rate than the white population, because of immigrations, and also that they are more likely to have multiple children. If intelligence tests are used to determine who should be allowed to have children, then we will, by default, be saying that we want less black and Hispanic children in this country. That sounds a little racist, too.

Requiring intelligence tests for any of the rights granted by our creator and guaranteed by our constitution is one seriously slippery slope. I might prefer that most minorities not vote, but it has nothing to do with the fact that they are minority and everything to do with the fact that they are much more likely to vote Democrat. That doesn't mean I'm going to attempt to disenfranchise them by requiring IQ tests. The same applies for gun ownership. High IQ or not, the general population is guaranteed the right to keep and bear arms, to protect ourselves from each other and also from the government, should the need arise.

If you think all of this through to it's logical conclusion, what you get is caste system of the intelligencia, who are allowed complete freedom, while those of lower IQs become relegated to the lower class, with less rights the farther down the scale you go.

Sounds suspiciously like what the founding fathers were trying to avoid when they started this whole America thing.

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Hmmm. . .well, this is getting interesting.

First... I am hispanic... well, mexican. Do i care that a test would mean that Mexican's MIGHT not score well, thereby preventing them from owning guns? HELL NO. I don't care if you are black, brown, yellow, orange or green. If you have a low IQ (or one not on par with the national average), then why should we arm those people?

I am guessing you are not actually arguing testing for gun ownership, but rather trying to justify your belief that gun owners are smart. I seriously don't think gun owners are stupid, I just believe they are not the smartest members of any population.

Secondly, I can't imagine even you would argue that even dumb people should have equal access to weaponry. I just don't see it.

Hehe... oh yeah, as far as the children thing... I truly believe that children are weapons of mass destruction if put in the wrong hands.

Am I racist if I think stupid people shouldn't have guns? If the average person of color is not on par with the national average, does that mean they would fail a test? No. Ever take an IQ test? They have very little in the way of "learned" testing queries... like English, Math, Science. Most of them are mental problems that need a solution... the testing is based on the idea that no matter what your education, you can solve the problems if you have the mental capacity to do so.

To that end, an IQ test could be the answer... throw in a few questions like, "Using a gun in a crime is: A) Illegal, resulting in possible incarceration or execution; B) A constitutional right; C) The easiest way to get money.

And since whites are currently the predominant group owning guns, what would change?

Now in terms of race, this smells a lot like the kind of rhetoric that distracts from the true meaning of the conversation in an effort to say, "Look, i can't argue this, so I am gonna throw in the RACE CARD!"

Frank, not too recently you just complained about black playing the race card in order to grandstand and attack all the things you find holy. Is race only a good thing to raise when it benefits you?

Actually, I did it on purpose, because I know you're of Mexican decent. I was playing a little devil's advocate. However, I am not playing the race card just to try to belittle anyone. The facts are that, statistically speaking, whites score higher on IQ tests than black or Hispanics. That would mean that your test would limit more minorities from gun ownership. I don't think that pointing out that fact is, in and of itself, racist. I did play it up a little, just because it's my blog and I get to be an ass if I want to. :-)

Personally, I don't think gun ownership should be restricted because of IQ. If a person is of age and has an IQ high enough to understand and fill out the required paperwork to purchase the gun, then so be it. Just like voting, free speech, and all the other constitutionally protected rights we all enjoy.

State sponsored sterilization, however, is something I've considered supporting for quite some time. Usually right after a trip to Wal-mart.

And I wasn't really trying to prove that gun owners are smart. I still don't believe that gun owners are of below average IQ, either.

I would, however, love to see someone actually study this. I find the question intriguing.

I've come to the conclusion that Ed just flat doesn't believe in the sanctity of the founding principles of our nation, and their avoidance of the caste system that he advocates.

I'm sad you find it intriguing, Frank, because the bottom line of that sort of intellectual experiment is precisely what you describe -- a caste system. That's very unintriguing to me, as we have countless examples before us already. Many of which, of course, we've had to defeat on the battlefield in defense of our founding principles.

What has IQ got to do with knowing how to use a gun? (unless of course we're talking extreme end of the scale) Any one of those victims of the Virginia massacre would have reached into their pockets and pulled out a gun on reflex that day and thus avoided further killings by finishing this evil lunatic off. It wouldn't have taken supreme intelligence, just plain old common sense. Unfortunately their college did them a disservice by banning guns and cost them their lives.

I have never thought anything you write is racist... I am just pointing out that you did rail against such sensationalization of race in past posts :)

And guns on campus? I'm not sure that would have solved the problem to be honest. This nut job just wanted to kill and I doubt that if he knew that there were armed people all over, he would have chosen to go into the classroom... perhaps he would have taken a page out of timoth mcveigh's book and blown up a building or perhaps a page out of the Texas campus sniper and just plinked away until he had a nice, healthy pile of bodies. Who knows, I surely don't think more guns is the answer, but outlawing them is not the answer either.

And scott, you're just a moron. I have tried explaining my beliefs to you as clearly as possible and you just continue to spew the same, tired words over and over. If you haven't figured out what I was communicating by now, perhaps it is time to start having an adult read to you and maybe draw pictures in crayons so it is easier for you to understand. Good luck in the future and I hope they never test people to purchase groceries... you'd be in big trouble.

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